What are the benefits of systemd?

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otw-refugee
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by otw-refugee »

I've given up expecting anything from the GEM's. I don't know how many are on RH's payroll, but I suspect a few.

Again, I'm glad I just put a halt to gentoo (mask ::gentoo) and just add things as I really need them.
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by otw-refugee »

They sure are pounding hard and heavy on the "tmpfiles" thread at the old place.

It seems the mantra is "don't worry, be happy", talk about cult culture :roll:
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by saellaven »

otw-refugee wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 8:29 pm They sure are pounding hard and heavy on the "tmpfiles" thread at the old place.

It seems the mantra is "don't worry, be happy", talk about cult culture :roll:
Don't even ask why you can't install the proper permissions at package installation... or why you take a tool that was meant for one purpose then hack on an additional purpose that it wasn't designed for, rather than building a tool for the latter purpose.

Somehow, my Linux systems ran flawlessly for almost two decades before the first systemd commit ever took place.

Meanwhile, we're going to look the other way on every race condition, privilege escalation, and all of the insanity of systemd, calling it somehow "better" than the alternatives. Remember, systemd won a 2017 Pwnie award for the number of CVEs.
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by otw-refugee »

We generally don't wait for somebody to have their system actually compromised once a security vulnerability is reported.
So says sam :roll:, though I call bs on his statement.

I haven't liked sam since I saw he was one of the new "council members" during the takeover

Edit to add: I saw that Zucca, pulled asturms chain, "quit antagonizing people just to antagonize"
And yet the other devs, don't say shit to him, even sam who is his boss since he's on the council.
The double standards, the arrogance, the downright stupidity and lies, by mainly GEMs have made me utterly disappointed with gentoo.
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by saellaven »

otw-refugee wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 9:32 pm
I haven't liked sam since I saw he was one of the new "council members" during the takeover

Edit to add: I saw that Zucca, pulled asturms chain, "quit antagonizing people just to antagonize"
And yet the other devs, don't say shit to him, even sam who is his boss since he's on the council.
The double standards, the arrogance, the downright stupidity and lies, by mainly GEMs have made me utterly disappointed with gentoo.
I first saw sam when he showed up to push to get otw banned... haven't cared for him either.

...and I'm nearing the same boat as you, where I'm either going to have to lock gentoo in place or switch to funtoo. Unfortunately, work has me too busy to be productive on other projects right now, and what little free time I do have is dedicated to my significant other as we continue to build our lives together, so locking things in place will likely be the option for now.
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by otw-refugee »

Locking down ::gentoo works pretty well

I'm still on python 3.9, any packages I need to install, I look at gentoo's and either copy it over or use an older ebuild that I can copy.
So, for the last month/m 1/2 I've not done any mass emerges, but I've also not had any problems caused by insufficient testing. :lol:

I look at it this way, I may have to check on things like gcc, glibc, etc but those I updated rarely anyway.
Not too uncommon for me to go a couple of years on older sys-* stuff.

For the rest, supplemental pkgs, etc. I update them as whatever I want to install might need them.
I find for the most part the GEMs were way too aggressive on staying on the bleeding edge.
I'm kind of in the middle between something like arch (fast) and debian (slow) as far as my updating.
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by Naib »

interesting old ml
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/ ... c1b992f2b0
That's just now. What other systemd-related restrictions/dependancies
will be eventually rammed down the throats of non-users of systemd?
eudev is a "declaration of independance" for non-systemd users.
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by saellaven »

otw-refugee wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 10:52 pm
For the rest, supplemental pkgs, etc. I update them as whatever I want to install might need them.
I find for the most part the GEMs were way too aggressive on staying on the bleeding edge.
I'm kind of in the middle between something like arch (fast) and debian (slow) as far as my updating.
Back in the 90s, when I was in my teens/20s and computing was more for fun, I loved being bleeding edge. Of course, back in the 90s, there was a flurry of actual development of key features, rather than just feature creep, maintenance, and bikeshedding.

Freshmeat was my home page, I was compiling my own distro from scratch, and if I went away for a few days, I felt like it took a month to catch back up. It was all fun and exciting, and if something broke, I had plenty of free time and a desire to learn.

These days, I have a non-computer related business that keeps me busy 70-90 hours per week, production systems that require stability more than updates, very little free time that is just my time (and I'd rather be doing something fun than picking up the pieces of a broken system thanks to poorly pushed decisions).

I guess I just went and grew up... Gentoo, however, feels like a teenager, mostly because it is being run by people that act like and treat it like a teenager. They think they know better than anyone else. they shut out anyone that disagrees with them, and they don't care what they break because it'll ultimately be someone else's problem. In the meantime, they get to feed their egos.

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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by saellaven »

Naib wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 11:26 pm interesting old ml
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/ ... c1b992f2b0
That's just now. What other systemd-related restrictions/dependancies
will be eventually rammed down the throats of non-users of systemd?
eudev is a "declaration of independance" for non-systemd users.
It was a regular point I made in response to the people stating that we should just use "shims" to avoid systemd... and look where we find ourselves.
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by Smug »

saellaven wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 10:33 pm ...and I'm nearing the same boat as you, where I'm either going to have to lock gentoo in place or switch to funtoo.
I wish more people would switch to Funtoo and start contributing. There are several areas where it needs more manpower. Sadly, I feel like most people that would be suited to this task are too busy or gave up and stopped contributing to anything a long time ago. After you've been run out of several projects by the mob for not holding the right opinions it's hard to find the will power to try again.

Plus I know if Funtoo gained a large following the same thing would happen to it that happened to every other project. People that only seek power would show up and subvert the process. Then they'd create a bunch of rules they never enforce against themselves or their clique. It wouldn't be long before everyone doing actual work got fed up and left leaving a dying project in their wake run by people that don't know how to do anything technical. Next thing you know it's Gentoo 2.0.

These people have always been around ruining everything. Nearly every popular BBS and webforum died because of people like this. You know the types. They play backseat moderator until given moderator powers. At which point they start going around enforcing made-up rules or abusing the power they've been given. They never contribute anything of value. They only hang around for attention and drama.

If you would have told me in 1998 that someone that never wrote a single line of code in their lives would land a job with Google simply by making up a set of rules (Code of Conduct) I wouldn't have bothered going into IT in the first place. I've seen lots of undeserving people land jobs and scholarships at tech companies that don't understand the software and hardware at all. Recently they hired someone at my old work place because they'd made hundreds of accepted commits to the Linux kernel. Sounds impressive until you go look at the commits themselves. Every last commit they made was editing comments in code. They removed "problematic and triggering" language. This person got a free ride to top school and landed 300k+ salary with stock options at major tech company straight out of school. They don't even know how to write a basic HTML.

I should have gotten business degree instead.
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by saellaven »

Smug wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 1:54 pm
saellaven wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 10:33 pm ...and I'm nearing the same boat as you, where I'm either going to have to lock gentoo in place or switch to funtoo.
I wish more people would switch to Funtoo and start contributing. There are several areas where it needs more manpower. Sadly, I feel like most people that would be suited to this task are too busy or gave up and stopped contributing to anything a long time ago. After you've been run out of several projects by the mob for not holding the right opinions it's hard to find the will power to try again.
My biggest issue is finding time to deal with the headaches and working out the bugs that would come from switching. I'm lucky if I have 5 or so hours of free time in my week that isn't already taken by something. I typically work 5-6 days/week, for 12-15 hours per day.

If Funtoo was as simple as just basically changing my repo, I might test it out in my home system... but from everything I've read, there's too much divergence at this point to do that. The up side is, if I do test it out at home, well, that's essentially my test system for my work production system, so it would be easy to migrate it over. It's really all about finding the time for that initial switch, whereas, with Gentoo, I just have to spend 5 minutes dealing with stupid decisions from time to time (like recently package masking almost every kernel for a bug that only affects some laptop users instead of just putting out a patched kernel before it was officially released).
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by otw-refugee »

EAPI 8 was the point where it went from relatively easy to switch to funtoo, after that it is much more time consuming to change.

Perhaps that's why Gorny was pushing so hard to get everything to that EAPI level. :roll:

I looked at modifying my standing portage to funtoo, and finally gave up (partly because I had other things to do)
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by otw-refugee »

PulseAudio & Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ut-Red-Hat

*hmm*
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by Naib »

otw-refugee wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:15 pm PulseAudio & Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ut-Red-Hat

*hmm*
He was planning to remain an IBMer for another ten years, but like with so many processes these days, systemd-oomd terminated his employment process suddenly and without prior warning.
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by otw-refugee »

:lol:
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

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Foot Spa Admables.
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Re: What are the benefits of systemd?

Post by marcih »

I'm 56 posts and 3 pages late for this but:
What are the benefits of systemd?
Having Poettering's d in your system.
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